Sep 5, 2011, Multiply, another moan,

Another moan..............

Sep 5, '11 8:28 AM for everyone

SOMETIMES THE SYSTEM REALLY FRUSTRATES ME,

I end up feeling so angry at the injustice of the whole dam system. My daughter (long term single parent) has tried for so long to .. well... just generally cope in the face of adversity. She's done really well, she is in a new house, the kids are at a much better school, her debts are under control and all she needed was a job. It has taken 6 months of continuous applications to get this far but... at last..... she has been offered a job. Her confidence is boosted because she has been told how well she did at interview and how she shone through on the online testing.
Then comes the problems.........the job is monthly paid, the benefit system doesn't cover her for her first month without wages, When she does get paid it will not be for the full month because they are paid in arrears, and she has two children to feed and rent to pay during this first month, all without pay. The wage is a little above minimal wage and the employer is not at all flexible in the hours worked, she wasn't even told the hours until she was offered the job. The hours are 1pm - 6pm Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday. After school club for two kids four times per week will be over £50 per week plus the initial £50 to register the kids with the club in the first place.The after school club finishes at 6 which means she will also have to pay a taxi to collect the kids and bring them to her work, that's another £5.00 per day. And that's without even considering the cost of childcare for 7 hours on a Sunday IF its available. Even when all of that is in place.........there  are at least 12 weeks per year when the kids are not at school and she will have to pay 2, possibly 3 times that much in child care. I would love to help, I used to but her new house is in a different town and she is now too far away. And anyway as soon as she moved away and I couldn't have her kids my other daughter asked me to childmind for her after school.........life seems very difficult for every one right now.
My daughter  wants to take this job and she knows she will get a bit of help toward child care costs eventually when every thing is sorted out, not that she has a choice in the matter , because if she refused the job she would lose all of her benefit for refusing work. No one wants something for nothing, but do we really need to make those who have so little struggle so hard and never get any further forward.
And of course my favourite gripe..............total inequality of wealth and wages in this country , that just goes round and round my head and makes me even angrier.................

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edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 6, '11 forelithe said If that is a moan, then I think it is a universal one at this time in western history I think you speak for a lot of people. I actually came back here tonight to delete this, I thought I should be more positive about my daughter getting a job, but now I guess it can stay, thank you for sharing your thoughts here. :-) I've always thought the Canadian health care system was good, I've heard nothing about people dying on surgery lists. I have of course read about all these scrounging single parents who keep having babies just to live the good life on benefit with out ever having to work..............what a load of media generated crap that is. As for a virtual police state in urban Britain........all I can say is that I am not aware of it, I've not come across it, but I don't live in any of the big inner city areas of England, I live in a fairly small town in Scotland.

delete reply bennett1 wrote on Sep 6, '11 Well said!!!

delete reply forelithe wrote on Sep 5, '11 A rant of my own ~ If that is a moan, then I think it is a universal one at this time in western history. Both my son's have good jobs, Canada's economy was not hit as hard as other western countries, but that could change any time in this climate of uncertainty. My older son is a paramedic~ so there is job security and a union that isn't completely shattered yet there, but the younger is in a very economy driven field as a flooring estimator. So it's fingers crossed all the time. There was the same disparity and short sightedness in our grandparents/great grandparents time...they solved it with a general strike, and long bloody battles for trade unions and bargaining rights, and eventually universal health care. Something has to give and it can't be the backs of the middle class any longer. To hear the right wing~media tell it ~ all a young girl in the UK has to do is have a couple of children and she's set for life! But then that is the same media; who scream that people in Canada are dying on surgery waiting lists, which happens so seldom that it makes National head lines here ~I was bumped to the head of the queue myself 14 years ago when waiting for gallbladder surgery ~ my liver was affected and I was in surgery within a few days. If I had not had universal health care it would have cost over 40,000 dollars which was 10,000 $ more than the equity in my home was at that time. Why are there no screaming headlines about mortality rates based on ability to pay ? Because it isn't news when someone decides not to have the cancer treatment or the heart surgery because of how it will affect the financial future of the people they love most in this world ! What sort of hell on earth would it be to weigh a terminally ill child's chances at survival with treatment against the welfare and education of that child's siblings ? What kind of society would tolerate even the remote possibility of it's citizens being forced into such a soul shattering position, with relief only when they have bankrupted themselves? What sort of person is it that would like to see a return to health care for profit ? We have people like that in Canada. I won't even begin on the obscenity of prisons for profit, or we'll be here all day ! And yes...sadly we have people like that here in Canada as well.... I do understand your anger, it is this manufactured fear, that is intended to keep us from rocking the boat, to keep us afraid of losing what we have, our health care, our prisons that cost less when they are not full. So full of fear that we will accept a lesser quality of education and standards of living ~ and ultimately make us accept that our children will not have as good an economic life as we did ourselves~ Which goes against every parenting instinct we possess ! We are meant to have higher expectations for our children ~ it is part of our job description! I don't know what the answer is~ the western world has had things it's own way for far too long. The pendulum had to swing in the opposite direction ~ but jobs that elevate the rest of the world, shouldn't cost us or our own jobs...but how do we balance that when such a small percentage of people control the wealth, and for the most part, their only objective is more wealth ? They have no interest in balance what so~ever. In fact, inequity works in their favor~ pit race against race~ faith against faith~it's all money in their pockets at the end of the day! No one (in their right mind ) wants another Soviet scenario...but are their memories so short that they can actually forget what happened less than a century ago in Tsarist Russia ?......... Where does this rampant greed end ? Will it be the day we all queue up to make a pittance building prisons for profit instead of dreaming about going to the stars ? I can not begin to imagine what it is like to live in an urban UK environment, if even half of what I've read about the sort of police state it has become is true. But there again whose media does one believe these days? I used to believe only the Canadian Broadcasting Co.~ and the BBC, but now the BBC has gone to mainstream US cable here in North America, it has commercials for goodness sake! At least I can still check the BBC 's take on world events on line. I feel the same anger about what is happening, and bewilderment at what to do about it. But good on your daughter for taking her fate into her own hands I wish her all the luck in the world. I'm glad she has refused to accept limitations on her right to determine her own and her children's future. She clearly still has her eyes on the stars. and that was my very first on line rant......

delete reply pestep55 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said it is what we let it be true enough ... it is what it is until it changes

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 ((((hug))))

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 Awwwwwww thanks for all the support........ now I'm feeling like I moan all the time. Reality is setting in and maybe things are not so bad ... she did well to get the job. I'll go to her house every second Sunday and my other daughter will have them at hers every second Sunday. The after school clubs are going to be difficult, but maybe we can help her out a bit until the money comes through to help pay child minding fees. The month with no money will be the real difficulty, but she will have her child tax credit which is just enough to feed them. No bills will be paid, and its going to take at least until christmas to get settled..............but the important thing is SHE HAS A JOB, and this is a good thing..................I wish it wasn't quite so difficult.

delete reply drfreakenz wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said What I would really like, is to find a way to unite all of those sitting at the bottom of our society and get them to realise that they should not view each other as the enemy, but look for the common enemy, that's important and hard to do .Everyone pulls in so many directions and some people are so programed against themselves AND others . I saw a disabled vet at a tea party rally carrying a sign that said cut entitlement programs ! which meant his only means of income too ! A lot of people act just like parrots and just say what they were taught without a single thought behind it .

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 it comes down to what we deem as important :)

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said hat is interesting I'm sure it will change, single parents used to be able to stay on benefit all the while they had school children.....I'm sure pretty soon single parents will have to look for work no matter how old the children

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 esoterika713 said I totally agree with you on that nemo. I hope Noah will be put in the school my children attended. It is an alternative school. The children are given more responsibility and everyone are treated as equals. Parents and teachers are all called by first name basis. Children have a voice with in the same curriculum as regular school. So, the kids still learn the basics. But, they are given more independence and because it costs (those that can afford it.It is illegal to force people to pay so there are some parents that don't have to) and therefore there are more school trips and activities then in the regular school system. Plus, the school (Beaches Alternative) is inside another school which is called Kimberly Public school. I would love it if I was the lucky adult to take my grandson to school and back. :) that does sound nice :)

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said well ~ me and peter gabriel what very excellent company you keep :-)

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said Yeah.............know what you mean about the little ones.......... my grandchildren are older, 7 and 9, they are at school and its after school care they need. At least out gov realises that very young children need to be at home with their mother. Single mothers have to start to look for work after the youngest child turns 7, until then they get benefit without having to look for work. that is interesting :)

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said YAAAAAY may even use that at the top of my page..............the old 'if you're not part of the solution etc .............has been there a while now, and prior to that it was the ''eye for an eye makes the whole world blind '' .........time for change I think i'd be honored well ~ me and peter gabriel :)

delete reply esoterika713 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said i am not a big fan of preschool kids need time to just be kids i think we put them in the system too soon :) I totally agree with you on that nemo. I hope Noah will be put in the school my children attended. It is an alternative school. The children are given more responsibility and everyone are treated as equals. Parents and teachers are all called by first name basis. Children have a voice with in the same curriculum as regular school. So, the kids still learn the basics. But, they are given more independence and because it costs (those that can afford it.It is illegal to force people to pay so there are some parents that don't have to) and therefore there are more school trips and activities then in the regular school system. Plus, the school (Beaches Alternative) is inside another school which is called Kimberly Public school. I would love it if I was the lucky adult to take my grandson to school and back. :)

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said i am not a big fan of preschool Yeah.............know what you mean about the little ones.......... my grandchildren are older, 7 and 9, they are at school and its after school care they need. At least out gov realises that very young children need to be at home with their mother. Single mothers have to start to look for work after the youngest child turns 7, until then they get benefit without having to look for work.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said they learned we are only as strong as the weakest link in the chain YAAAAAY may even use that at the top of my page..............the old 'if you're not part of the solution etc .............has been there a while now, and prior to that it was the ''eye for an eye makes the whole world blind '' .........time for change I think

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 drfreakenz said eeez you sound like a typical American lol Why is the system so unjust ? and more importantly why do we put up with it ? is it becausev we face it one at a time ? each thinking we'll do better than the last ? I am really ANGRY too about it . yeah i know..............and I think the reason maybe we don't moan so much about our system is because we realise its a lot better than some systems. Also...........like you say, we face it one at a time, and the system is clever in that there is so little difference in real terms between the working poor and the non working poor that as soon as we are established into the 'working poor' group we get swallowed up by it. And thats when the ...'all those people scrounging on benefit' saga comes into play. What I would really like, is to find a way to unite all of those sitting at the bottom of our society and get them to realise that they should not view each other as the enemy, but look for the common enemy,

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 i am not a big fan of preschool kids need time to just be kids i think we put them in the system too soon :)

delete reply esoterika713 wrote on Sep 5, '11 Cool our money has the queen on it too. Joy to the Common Wealth. :)

delete reply esoterika713 wrote on Sep 5, '11 It is the same here. The costs of having children in after school programs and daycare cost a lot. Good luck to your daughter and her children. I was a single parent for four years. Now, my kids have all grown up and one has made me a grandma too. Noah isn't in daycare at the moment but they want to get him in soon so that he will adjust to going to school when he reaches kindergarten age.

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 another advantage the earlier generation had they learned we are only as strong as the weakest link in the chain :)

delete reply drfreakenz wrote on Sep 5, '11 jeeez you sound like a typical American lol Why is the system so unjust ? and more importantly why do we put up with it ? is it becausev we face it one at a time ? each thinking we'll do better than the last ? I am really ANGRY too about it .

delete reply acousticeagle wrote on Sep 5, '11, edited on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said not that she has a choice in the matter , because if she refused the job she would lose all of her benefit for refusing work. N The system has made it so people like your daughter have no choice. This is trajedy, to be so locked in to a situation that there is no choice.

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11, edited on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said you are so right, the older I get the more I realise my dad was right when he said..........'people get the governments they deserve'..............we ( collectivly) should demand more from our politicians and not be so easily misled by them. those of that generation learned more of the world then we did you don't go to war against tyranny and not learn and you don't tell one that survived d-day that they are not worth the money but our generation as let the work and wealth of that generation get frittered away since the early 80's the rush has been on to get it era's and 401k's put too much of it in the stock market and from computer bubbles to housing scams it is now gone we bought in to the market which is high risk risk only to be taken by those that can afford the loss more money came in then could reasonably be used and greed took over just as the 1920s and now it is gone instead of wisely investing the money in the projects that would lead to growth, livable paychecks and a stable economy we gave it to them to fritter away now we have to deal with that and bickering about scapegoats, just screaming that government doesn't work and stupid name calling is not acknowledging the problems and dealing with them :)

delete reply artprevails wrote on Sep 5, '11 My daughter is between a rock and a hard place right now too...she is finding her way. She is in a nursing program, has a five year old and is without work. I had to find my way at one time~ worked 3 part time jobs to work around my 3 daughter's school schedules. Try not to take on too much stress over this, your daughter will get through it. I know you see the unfair parts of her situation and I see the unfair parts of my daughter's. They need us to call on for calm support...

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nemo4sun said it is what we let it be you are so right, the older I get the more I realise my dad was right when he said..........'people get the governments they deserve'..............we ( collectivly) should demand more from our politicians and not be so easily misled by them.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 bennett1 said When my husband's aunt visited the old Czechloslovakia and Yugoslavia, every workplace had childcare. That is gone now. hmmmmmmmmmm guess thats something we don't mention, all old communist block countries had day care at the work place. In some aspects changing EVERYTHING about those countries was a bit like 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'. There is help with child care costs here if you are in receipt of tax credit, I'm not sure how that works or how much help you get. I can relate to your friends experience, here its not only the insurance, public liability, its also the strict rules about staffing numbers, the qualifications of staff, even things like the floor area per child and available equipment.............It is an extremely regulated business, I guess it should be but that doesn't help when it comes to paying for it. Official child care is regulated to a very high standard but many can't afford it so children end up being left with who ever can have them, and thats not always the best thing.

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 pestep55 said it is what it is it is what we let it be

delete reply pestep55 wrote on Sep 5, '11 She is not alone, what should be earned should not have to be struggled for, sadly it is what it is

delete reply bennett1 wrote on Sep 5, '11 Publix Supermarkets offer onsite childcare for $520 a month or £323. (Got that from CNN.) There are other companies that offer it as well. A school close to me, where a friend of mine taught, was able to get a daycare set up in one of the buildings. She had everything: staff, a nice sunny room, admin approval, etc. It fell apart due to insurance rates. When my husband's aunt visited the old Czechloslovakia and Yugoslavia, every workplace had childcare. That is gone now.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 bennett1 said One of their goals was to promote job-site daycare, since studies show that workers are more productive and have less absenteeism when there is good childcare close to parents' work. It just never happened. I know, it doesn't happen, I can't think of one single company that offers day care. And if a company did offer it i'm sure it would be very expensive to use. There are pretty strict rules about staffing numbers and qualifications here which makes child care good..............but virtually impossible to afford.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 veryfrank said When the benefits or assistance systems are developed and written, they are created by the most compassionate people, that is the easy part. I think you are right, but we don't seem to have that same caliber of compassionate person around any more. To be honest iIm no longer sure how it works, I've not had to deal directly with the system for a couple of years now, but yet I believe thats the theory. If you are in work you are being paid. I do remember it doesn't work the other way round. If you lose your job, you are not entitled to benefit from the time you become unemployed, you are entitled from the time ( they calculate) your last wage lasts. I don't think any one has any idea how to fix the system because as soon as someone tries to make things a bit better in one area, someone else complains that its not fair and costs too much. I've become quite cynical and now I believe the system is designed to pit working poor against non working poor, play one off against the other, ........its a wonderfully successful divide and rule strategy thats keeps the real inequalities and injustices hidden and enables the rich poor divide to go unchallenged..

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delete reply veryfrank wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said No one wants something for nothing, but do we really need to make those who have so little struggle so hard and never get any further forward. When the benefits or assistance systems are developed and written, they are created by the most compassionate people, that is the easy part. The difficulties come when it is time to 'sell' the program to the most conservative who don't see the need for the assistance to begin with. That is when the compromises, penalties and hurdles are added to the program. What is then put in place is a compromised system which is broken before it starts, fully satisfies no one and gains a bad reputation over the course of time. Consequently, the very means that was designed to help people to become self sufficient becomes self defeating because the system creates its own obstacles, in addition to the ones that were already present to cause the family to need the assistance in the first place. To deny financial support for the first transitional month is in itself self defeating. That creates a major hurdle and a disincentive to look for a job. It must be based in the idea that if there are benefits paid and eventually the employer will pay the salary, in arrears, for that same month, that constitutes double payments. If a system works from when money is actually collected in hand, not when it is actually earned on paper, there would be no double payment and this situation could have been completely avoided. As people have already said, things are just as bad here. It seems that the inmates are minding the asylum. I'm convinced that mixing conservative and liberal thinkers, then adding a third faction of moderates to mediate, is like asking the Three Witches from MacBeth to stir up a dinner. The potion can't be anything but lethal. My heart goes out to you and your daughter.

delete reply nemo4sun wrote on Sep 5, '11 ((((hug)))) everyone i know is going through tough times right now from my mom and her medical needs, to my daughter i have friends and relatives who have been looking for work for over 2 years we really need to look at how things work right now and stop the simple scapegoating and catchphrases to get serious

delete reply bennett1 wrote on Sep 5, '11 It is Labor Day here in the US; a day to celebrate working men and women. But labor unions, which can be said to have created the middle class, have by-and-large been gutted. One of their goals was to promote job-site daycare, since studies show that workers are more productive and have less absenteeism when there is good childcare close to parents' work. It just never happened.

delete reply bernardv wrote on Sep 5, '11 Your daughter has my sympathy, I remember how hard it was for me when I was newly single. Three kiddies from seven to two and a half years old to look after. Life was hard. It seems even harder now for those struggling.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 I think Heidi is right...........w are right back in the middle ages, we have the poor.............and then we have the rich....................and the gap between the two grows by the day

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nessiek said NOt that im suggesting your grandchildren would end up on that path, but I still think forcing mothers to work is wrong :o) The way I understand the system is once your youngest child turns 7 your benefit will change from being income support, where there is no obligation to look for work, to jobs seekers allowance, where there is an obligation to look for work. I don't think I or my daughter has a problem with that, especially because most mothers have two orr three kids so in reality it means you have about 10 years when you don't need to work. But kids do need to know you don't get any thing for nothing and no one owes you a living.............what we object to isn't that you have to work, but that the system makes it so bloody hard, and there is so little reward for working. As for the riots..........yes.............I would call that family breakdown but i'm sure it was in part responsible for some of it.

delete reply nessiek wrote on Sep 5, '11 Sorry for all my deletions - its multiply playing up. :o/

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delete reply nessiek wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said thanks Bernie.............I know you understand, i seem to remember a post you did about criminalising the poor..........this is exactly what happens. my daughter has already had serious debt problems and at one point she as threatened with being charged with fraud by the benefit agency. She wasn't committing fraud........it was just another ploy to keep her down trodden and keep her in her place Yeah that's what happened to me. I was just coming to the end of my degree when I went to work. I hadn't taken my final exams and someone "reported me" for having a man in the house. Wes and I were not living together at that stage (as he was too ill - he was dying). so I lost all my benefits and had to work. I had to fight the case - and won and got compensation - but I got a lesser degree - only a 2:1 not a first I was predicted to get. I also ended up having hundreds of £s in legal costs to fork out and I got into rent arrears. Nil illegitemi carborundum. (Oh and it was the social workers then too who reported me falsely - the start of my "troubles" with J).

delete reply kathyinozarks wrote on Sep 5, '11, edited on Sep 5, '11 same problems in this country as well-sigh, with all the manufacturing jobs going to china over the past few years-we are losing the middle class here-the job situation is sooooo poor here, as is the housing market-our country is in a very very bad economic state right now, as it seems alot of the rest worls as well

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delete reply nessiek wrote on Sep 5, '11 forgetmenot525 said I know you do...............and that is exactly how she feels, she will be severely in debt by the time she gets paid, and that will just be things like rent and council tax because she has no credit rating to get any sort of loan The only sort of load she could get is one of those with a ridiculous 2000% interest...........they should be illegal because they exploit the very poor..........another moan.. I feel guilty for moaning because when you consider our system and compare it to the real hardship suffered by some of our American friends you realise things could be a whole lot worse. But I also think if w are in the least complacent our system will be eroded to that level You shouldn't feel guilty though babes. Its all relative. Remember the rule of threes - 3 minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food - you die- and three months without income - you are homeless. NOONE - apart from the very richest is exempt from these rules. Just because you are poor in the UK and you have a benefit propping you up to a degree doesn't mean you won't be down and out and on the streets pretty sharp if things take even a relatively minor turn for the worse. Personally, I think forcing mothers out to work is wrong. I point to it as being one (only one mind) of the causes of the riots the other month. If those kids had perhaps had mothers at home who looked after them properly, they would have been less inclined to do the things that they did. Of course that is a generalisation - some probably did and would have done it anyway, but even preventing one child getting mixed up in a life of crime is worth it in my book. NOt that im suggesting your grandchildren would end up on that path, but I still think forcing mothers to work is wrong :o)

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 greenwytch said i wound up quitting my job, which i loved very much. *sighs* thats very sad, but it happens all the time, people quit their jobs because they can't afford to keep them or they don't take the job in the first place because it would cost them.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 bennett1 said That is a heart-rending story and it is amplified over and over in your country and ours. Nobody want to pay attention to this. They are called (here) the working poor but there is little media coverage of their plight and very little thought that we need programs in place to help out. thanks Bernie.............I know you understand, i seem to remember a post you did about criminalising the poor..........this is exactly what happens. my daughter has already had serious debt problems and at one point she as threatened with being charged with fraud by the benefit agency. She wasn't committing fraud........it was just another ploy to keep her down trodden and keep her in her place

delete reply bennett1 wrote on Sep 5, '11 That is a heart-rending story and it is amplified over and over in your country and ours. Nobody want to pay attention to this. They are called (here) the working poor but there is little media coverage of their plight and very little thought that we need programs in place to help out.

edit delete reply forgetmenot525 wrote on Sep 5, '11 nessiek said had been unemployed for sometime so I had no basic clothes - like tights or decent shoes. At the end of the month I was so far in debt, I couldnt afford the petrol to get to work and I lost my job again. It took me nearly 4 years to pay those debts off. I really really feel for your daughter. I know you do...............and that is exactly how she feels, she will be severely in debt by the time she gets paid, and that will just be things like rent and council tax because she has no credit rating to get any sort of loan The only sort of load she could get is one of those with a ridiculous 2000% interest...........they should be illegal because they exploit the very poor..........another moan.. I feel guilty for moaning because when you consider our system and compare it to the real hardship suffered by some of our American friends you realise things could be a whole lot worse. But I also think if w are in the least complacent our system will be eroded to that level

delete reply greenwytch wrote on Sep 5, '11 and there are never any easy answers, are there? that has got to be really frustrating for her. but still, i give her many kudos for sticking with it and not giving in and keeping on with what she needs to do. i know you are as helpful as you can be, hun. blessings to her and the kids as they keep on keeping on. back in the day when i was gainfully employed and the boys were still in grade school, it was time for summer vacation. the one and only summer program for kids on the military base where we lived would have taken just about 2/3 of my paycheck.....and it was only a half-day program, which still left me with their afternoon time to worry about. AND i would have had to pack them lunches for their half day at the summer program. i wound up quitting my job, which i loved very much. *sighs*

delete reply nessiek wrote on Sep 5, '11 (((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Oh you can't win any way you go can you. The last time I worked was 1997. I worked as a sales rep. I was on a starting salary of £15K. I was on emergency tax because I had no tax code. I then had to pay 2 lots of child care - mornings and after school. I was expected to work til 8pm and drive an hour each way to commute. I had been unemployed for sometime so I had no basic clothes - like tights or decent shoes. At the end of the month I was so far in debt, I couldnt afford the petrol to get to work and I lost my job again. It took me nearly 4 years to pay those debts off. I really really feel for your daughter. Nessie

delete reply starfishred wrote on Sep 5, '11 better :) I totaly understand loretta and it is getting worse-- we are now back in the middle ages sigh