| yet more deliberately provocative propaganda | for everyone |
Do you remember me posting this a while ago??
http://forgetmenot525.multiply.com/journal/item/344/A_warning_about_deliberately_provocative_propaganda
Now there is something else popping up every where on blogland. Why are people so stupid?? Do you really believe there was a mass wedding involving hundreds of tiny child brides?? Are you all so ready to believe any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted next to it?? These two videos are posted all over the web on all sorts of blogs and are supposed to prove what depraved and wicked people these islamics are. This is supposed to be a mass wedding between adult men and little girls. Give me a break, just exactly how deeply ingrained are our prejudices that any one could actually believe this??
The following statement can be found on this web site, it took me all of 15 minutes to find!!
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417
''The men and women are sitting, Most ignore the speeches, some even ignore the prayers. Then the fireworks explode, the cheering begins, and in march the Hamas scouts, bashing drums, looking every inch the future Hamas fighters many will be. Then the grooms, aged about 18 to about 28. They are holding hands with their young nieces and cousins, little girls aged from about 3 to 8, made up to the nines, wearing white wedding dresses.
Up they all go to the stage, the cheering and music grows ever louder. The girls were having the time of their lives, but, getting a little bored after a while, came down off the stage to dance with each other and play games.''IT CONTINUES
''Our report on this put it into context saying that it took place just a mile from the Israeli border and was a message from Hamas about its strength confidence and future fighters. Oh and that the brides were elsewhere. Pretty straightforward.!!
It never struck me for a moment that the little girls might later be described in the bloggersphere as the brides! How naive I am.'
'Yeah ...............how bloody naive is that??
note to any one ready this on Blogger, this was first posted on Multiply and many videos were left in the comments, they have not copied but actually, most of them were pretty awful so its maybe best not to have them here.
134 Comments
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blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 27, '09
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amusedarab wrote on Aug 27, '09
Kan ya makan.....
In a nursery, far, far away, ecec333 announced that the moon was made of green cheese. forgetmenot525 pointed out gently that the moon was not, in fact, made of green cheese at all, which greatly angered ecec333 who rushed off and returned armed with comic books, cartoons, and fragments of old myths and legends and declared that this was categorical proof that the moon was indeed made of green cheese. forgetmenot525 gently pointed out that comics, cartoons and fabricated accounts were not, in fact, regarded as reliable evidence by grown-ups, and in fact provided zero proof to support ecec333's claim that the moon was made of green cheese. Furious, ecec333 stormed off again and returned with a pile of newspaper cuttings and some other storybooks that were not actually about the moon at all. forgetmenot525 studied ecec333's collection of newspaper cuttings and said in a kind voice "But none of these articles actually say that the moon is made of green cheese at all, do they? They don't even mention green cheese anywhere!" ecec333 became increasingly enraged and began foot-stamping and screaming "I have showed you ALL the things that support my belief that the moon is made of green cheese and yet you deny it!" The other children watched, puzzled, as a pouting ecec333 began jeering "You must be stupid if you cannot see that the moon is made of green cheese after all the evidence I have shown you!" forgetmenot525 tried again. "But ecec333, cartoons and comics do not count as acceptable evidence, and your material about other planets has nothing to do with the moon (and indeed, makes no reference to green cheese either), while your own bundle of newspaper cuttings actually undermines your argument because nowhere in it is there any reference at all to green cheese". Eventually time came for all the little boys and girls to undertake their 'Science and research skills' examination, and everyone passed except poor ecec333, who wasted a great amount of time vainly trying to convince the examiners that the moon was made of green cheese, thereby demonstrating an abject failure to handle source materials, conduct proper research, or arrive at a rational conclusion based upon solid evidence and a rigorous examination of facts. So ecec333 had to stay in the nursery while the other children made their way happily into the real world and quickly forgot about the silly child who refused to grow up. تهانينا ، يمكنك البحث عن الحقيقة ، جزاكم الله خيرا |
astranavigo08 wrote on Aug 22, '09
I
so love the morons who defend the Israelis - and the Tinfoil Hat
Brigade here at home. They're really entertaining, especially in an
argument like this one (in a "let's-kick-a-three-legged-dog" kind of
way).
Have you noticed that it's always "I-have-a-friend-who-has-a-friend", or something like that? Or, it's "I-saw-this-on-Youtube-so-it-has-to-be-true." These are the same people who accept Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh as gospel; they're the ones who were all-but-fellating Orly Taitz' private-parts over her 'challenge' of Obama's citizenship (until she got punked by that "Kenyan Birth Certificate"). These people have wrapped themselves in the flag and carried the cross (just as Sinclair Lewis said they would, regarding the arrival of fascism in America). At that point, unfortunately, it ceases to be funny. We have a serious problem in America, and they're a good part of it. My apologies on behalf of some of my countrymen. They're not bad people. They're just ignorant.... |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 17, '09
THANKS BENNETT............will do
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
THIS BLOG IS NOW CLOSED,
THREE DAYS ON ONE THREAD IS ENOUGH. ANY COMMENTS ADDED AFTER THIS NOTICE WILL BE DELETED THANKS TO EVERY ONE WHO CONTRIBUTED |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09, edited on Aug 15, '09
I didn't misread you, this is exactly word for word what you said
''was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again''. how can that be misread?? Like I said, I can't find any reports of mass child weddings except this one wedding in Palestine which according to the sky reporter who was there, was certainly NOT a mass child wedding. This one is the only one ever reported. look back and you will see I have NEVER said there are no child weddings, of course there are, they happen all over the world in all different countries and in all different faiths. But, after reading link after link after link, I have found no reports of child weddings in Palestine and certainly no mass child weddings in Palestine (or any where else). And quite frankly..............if you are not talking about Palestine I don't see how it is relevant. The discussion never was about what happens in Saudi or Yemen or Pakistan...............we were talking about Palestine and all of these countries have very different cultures and practices. Which brings me back to my original point, why jump to conclusions, why assume this is a mass wedding with child brides?? Now that we have established we can find no prior evidence of child brides in Palastine and we can find no prior evidence of mass child brides ANYWHERE prior to this report……………..why jump to these conclusions ?? |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 15, '09
ecec333 said
 If
you don't understand it now, there is nothing I can do about it. I, and
several others, have tried to explain my blog entry and also the Muslim
traditions and what's necessary is necessary, but I think I've done
what I can do 
and in those os African Tribal Customes , The Hindu Religion , Some
South American Countries mostly Guatamala & the Sikh Religion all
links above .. not posting them all again
|
No,
I haven't revised anything, but I think that you've misread me. That
may be my own fault, but what I say is: 1) child weddings are infamous =
they are nothing but RAPE, 2) mass child weddings like the one in Gaza
(which I still believe in) are infamous for the same reasons, 3) child
weddings have been documented over and over and over, no doubt about it,
and I'm not talking Gaza here, but large parts of the Muslim world as
well as in European countries where the fathers have found loopholes for
this continued infamy = e.g. in my own country, 4) As I believe in the
child wedding-interpretation for Gaza I, as stated several times, of
course also believe in what the various bloggers, journalists write
about Hamas and these mass weddings.
If you don't understand it now, there is nothing I can do about it. I, and several others, have tried to explain my blog entry and also the Muslim traditions and what's necessary is necessary, but I think I've done what I can do. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
to
say child weddings are infamous is a totally different thing to
saying that mass child weddings are infamous and have been documented
over and over again...............do I take it from this you have
revised your original statement??
|
As
I believe in the Gaza-incident as one of these (Hamas-)mass weddings
and several of the links speak of mass weddings I have furnished you
with this information: That's what I build my interpretation on. I don't
say that Muslims always have mass weddings, but I do say that child
weddings are infamous and that they have been proven over and over again
all over the Muslim world. That's what I'm saying. Mass weddings may
even be a modern kind of wedding which didn't occur before now. That I
don't know, but I do know that Muslims let very young girls marry, have
sex "like Aisha". The incident in Gaza has been described by bloggers
and others as one in several mass weddings, but also/mostly with
grown-up, young women.
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
ecec333 said
- was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
this
is what you said...............quoted from your comment
..................all I have ever said is I would like to see your
information and links on this , and so far you haven't supplied any of
the links to what you call infamous mass child weddings documented over
and over again. the only reference I can find to any mass child wedding
is the one we are discussing which has been renounced by the original
Sky reported who initially reported on this wedding. He has said he was
there and the children were friends and relatives and the brides were
all in another room. If you know of any more mass child weddings
...........where are they??
|
How
do you read "Information about child brides all over the Muslim world"
as "she as part of a mass wedding ....."? Is that what I stated? I
should no.
Once again: You find a lot about child marriages, rape of children within "marriages", etc. by visiting some of those nice links I've given you. The mass wedding-links that you keep harping about you find in interpretations of the Gaza-incident. (Which I also have given you = interpretations, OK) |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
I've
seen this before, the child comes from Yemin not Palestine, she was not
part of a mass wedding and the wedding was declaired against the law
|
That culture is built upon The Qur'an = Islam.
This is another good link = http://wholinkstome.com/phrase/child-marriage-islam |
Yes, by the very first links I gave you. They were based on interpretations by others as I told you. However, you discarded this information, if I'm not mistaken, "for being based on blogs" or something like that. To me this is a crazy notion and it must mean that your own blogs never are to be trusted - because they are blogs. Yes, that's the point, I believe in what has been stated by others before me. You, on the other hand, expect me to find some "links" that to you are the proof you need. I think that you are unable to read the information about child brides all over the Muslim world and not only Gaza and understand that there is a red thread in all this which is Islam. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
You
already did what?? do you mean you have supplied proof of mass weddings
of child brides in Palestine?? I HAVE checked ALL your links and ALL
the information and there is NO mention any where of these many mass
child bride weddings you are so convinced happen..............they
simply are not there not on any of the links you send. There are reports
of child brides but as far as I can see none of them are in or around
Palestine, there are reports of mass weddings, but these are not
reported as mass child weddings, just mass weddings, and these do
happen in and around palestine, but NOTHING you have sent shows ANY mass
child bride weddings ANYWHERE. And I really don't understand why you
keep referring to things that happen in India, or Pakistan or Saudi or
any where else really when we are talking about something that was
supposed to happen in Palestine.
Anyway.............I have lost count of the number of times you have said ''this will be my last comment'' or words to that effect, I think you have said that at least twice and then come back...... you must like it here to come back so often. |
Loretta,
I already did that, but not with another information than you already
have. Only interpret it like the part of the interpreters that I believe
in. I can't see why I should be obliged to give you "links" (frankly,
are you all there???) which others don't have. Like me, they have
videos, writings, traditions and that adds up to the belief (based on
interpretations) that recently there was a mass wedding of female
children to grown-up men. But still, interpretations. Nothing you have
said proves differently and all of it is based on interpretations.
As I said before: Time will show who is right or closest to the truth, but I'm convinced that's me and certainly not you. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
the
most recent links you have left all appear to be from Pakistan and not
Palestine. The last link gives a rough global incidence of child brides,
according to that information, it doesn't appear to happen in or around
Palestine. None of the links you left appear to report of ''mass child
weddings'', they all appear to be single weddings and as I said, none of
them seem to be in or any where near Palestine. But thanks for the
links any way, it made interesting reading. Also, I did note that none
of those reports specified what religion the couples were.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
maybe
I expect too much, I would like people to not only 'behave like an
intelligent race''.............but to actually BE ONE.....:-))
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
ecec333 said
was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
thats ok. I take it you won't be supplying links to prove your claim to infamous mass child weddings then.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
I THINK EC FORGOT WHERE TO FIND THIS BLOG, SHE MISTAKENLY LEFT THIS IN THE GUEST BOOK.
etpsc wrote today at 2:08 PM Once and for all - and this is final - as I have no intention of reading more of what you may try to pass off as insight. At least I have the decency to say that my belief in the mass wedding of very young girls is the same as your disbelief: An interpretation of the material put forward over and over. You keep harping on "a link" which probably exists, perhaps with UN, perhaps with the press, but which is not the issue here. The issue is: That the marrying off of very young girls, some as young as 6-9 years old, is an infamous habit within the Muslim tradition. If you deny that you're either extremely ignorant or a liar. Based on what I've seen and read, e.g. in some of the material I gave you links to and which you haven't even browsed (or understood? is that the real problem?) I believe in the INTERPRETATION of the Gaza-incident: Yes, there may have been fewer or more young brides than has been estimated by those who gave a very welcome interpretation of the incident, but the infamous tradition itself has been documented over and over again, and that's what I'm writing. The mass aspect is only interesting for one reason: It's a tool for Hamas who dreams high dreams of a demographic miracle of little Muslims everywhere. I give you a few more links about child marriages and the attempts by UN to curb or preferably stop them. This I do to give you the chance of furnishing your understanding of this material: If there are laws against this unspeakable habit then it's because 1) it exists (It's proven), 2) the fact that it exists should make it easier for you to understand both interpretations of the Gaza-incident. http://www.wluml.org/english/newsfulltxt.shtml?cmd[157]=x-157-563991 http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46022 http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/egm/vaw_legislation_2009 /Expert%20Paper%20EGMGPLHP%20_Salma%20Ali_.pdf http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2005/presskit/factsheets/facts_child_marriage.htm |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
I've
just checked that out, I think people are going to find it difficult to
believe that these people ar practising christians and the wedding
ceremonies are carried out by ordained christian priests. This is just
another example of what happens to people when they live in the worst
possible poverty.
|
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 15, '09
49 countries in the world have child marriages ....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3948867.ece More than 90 per cent of the 77 million people in Ethiopia live in rural areas. The Orthodox Church has a massive influence over the communities. While the Christian hierarchy claims to want an end to child marriages, its priests - there are half a million in the country - still carry them out. “Most of these priests are also carpenters and farmers,” the Church's head, His Holiness Abune Paulos said. “It will take time for the message to filter down that they must not be a part of this tradition.” the world should be caring about ALL and not just chosing the ones that suit their progandas |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
ecec333 said
have been told that you don't feel that I have given you the information about my sources you think I should give you
SEE THE ANSWER I HAVE JUST GIVEN AND IT DOES LOOK AT ALL LINKS YOU LEFT.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/middleeast/31gaza.html?_r=2 =
This is first link you left, it has a picture of a mass wedding that took place in October and under the picture it very clearly says ‘’ With the grooms on the left, children danced at a stadium in Gaza this month during a mass wedding celebration for 300 couples, the 10th such event here this year organized by Hamas.’’ . NOTE…………..this is YOUR source and it says the children are dancing at the stadium, it certainly DOES NOT say these are child brides .A later quote from this article says ‘’The poorest couples received a gift equivalent to £2.000, that’s only the cost of a plank of wood toward a bedroom suite said bride Ola Dalo21, as she leaned toward her husband Ali Msabah, 24’’, NOTE, age of te bride is 21. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102703.html = This is the second link you left, no photo, just a write up of mass wedding, again NO MENTION OF CHILD BRIDES. This is a quote from the article. ‘’The militant Palestinian group Hamas sponsored a mass wedding of 382 Palestinian couples in a refugee camp in the Syrian capital of Damascus’’ http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f38/mass-wedding-saudi-style-13638/ This is the third link you left It shows a picture of many men from Saudi Arabia with a short note underneath saying ‘’Saudi Arabia holds its first mass wedding, paid for by the government to help couples who otherwise couldn't’t afford a wedding celebration. More than 1,600 newlyweds were also given a two-day honeymoon, household appliances and gold for the bride’’.. NOTE, NO mention of child brides and this wasn’t even in Palestine, it was in Saudi Arabia which is not where we were discussing http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/07/hamas-sponsors-mass-wedding-for-little.html This is the fourth link you left, its not a news article, it’s someone’s blog, as far as I can tell it is discussing the same wedding we have been talking about. It certainly is not ‘’ was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.’’.....it’s the same wedding discussed on another blog by people making the same assumptions. Until you read the comments which say ‘’Let's make sure that our accusations about these reprehensible groups are accurate before we make them, or else it can boomerang on us and make us all look bad. We know there are lots of child marriages in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states but I haven't heard about many in the Arab nations surrounding Israel, and it is unlikely that there would be a mass wedding with so many child brides or else there would be a tumult from the more liberal Arabs.’’…………. The fifth link is the same as the fourth. http://english.chinatibetnews.com/TibetdDiscovery/2009-06/16/content_260271.htm The sixth link shows a picture of a bride, the caption under the picture says ‘’Muslim brides prepare for a mass wedding ceremony in Mumbai June 15, 2009. A total of 30 Muslim couples, from various parts of western Indian state of Maharashtra, took their wedding vows on Monday during the day-long mass marriage ceremony.’’ NOTE this wedding was in Mumbai, NOT Palestine and there is NO mention of child brides. http://www.caloocancity.gov.ph/content.aspx?sectionid=479 The seventh link is an article describing a mass wedding in the Philippines, a quote for the article says ‘’ The only difference of this event from the other mass weddings conducted in the city is the manner by which the ceremonies should conform to the teachings of Islam, Flores said.’’ NOTE, there is NO mention of child brides and the wedding took place in Caloocan City, Philippines NOT in Palestine. Also note that the article indicates there have been other mass weddings of other faiths in the city. http://english.cctv.com/20090617/101458.shtml the eighth link is the same as the sixth and is a picture of a bride in India. NO CHILD BRIDE HERE http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=44723 And finally, you tenth and last link. This one is interesting, it says; and I quote, ‘’ Israel killed 1434 Palestinians, a third of them children and wounded more than 5000 Palestinians in the 22-day military aggression in December 2008 on Gaza.’’, it goes on to say, ‘’ The massive offensive also destroyed UN schools and the main aid headquarters where tonnes of food was stocked, as well as bombed beside mosques, hospitals, government buildings.’’ The article talks about a mass wedding held in Gazza, it says ’’They were accompanied at the mass ceremony by their relatives, friends and their children - the daughters wore white dresses, while the sons wore black suits.’’ NO mention of child brides here either!!! Although it DOES say that the daughters who attended the ceremony wore white dresses. SO………….now that I have laboriously trawled through all 10 links you left and FOUND NO MASS WEDDINGS OF CHILD BRIDES……………maybe you will believe me. I remind you, and I quote, you said ‘’ was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.’’ Maybe its time for you to disclose these infamous mass child weddings that have been documented over and over again, OR ‘’put up or shut up’’ as we say. |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 15, '09
comparing like with like in India. sadly India has a huge child bride problem and the vast majoroty of the population is hindu 80% Bararola, India - When Rekha Kalindi was nearing age 12, her parents told her they were planning to marry her off. Rekha's response would reverberate all the way up to the president of India: "No." Nearly half of all Indian females get married before turning the legal minimum age of 18. The requirement has been in place for more than three decades, but centuries of custom don't change overnight – and that's especially true in Bararola, a land carved up into small farm plots and crisscrossed by dirt paths that takes at least a day's journey to reach from Calcutta. But even here, some people are taking a stand. HUSBAND AND WIFE: Eight-year-old Mangilal, left, and his bride Mangi, 7, came out of a temple after their wedding in Rajgarh, India, PRAKASH HATVALNE/AP Ihttp://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0424/p06s07-wosc.html http://sikhhealth.blogspot.com/2009/03/child-marriages-in-india.html Sikh Child Marriages in India |
I
have been told that you don't feel that I have given you the
information about my sources you think I should give you, I shall add
this, and that will most likely be my final comment to this discussion.
As I've said before there are differing opinions about who married whom
in Gaza. Based on general knowledge of the Islamic traditions when it
comes to child marriages, subjection of women and femicide I believe in
interpreting this incident as a marriage of very young girls/children to
grown men. Nothing I've read by you have changed that conviction, but -
like your conviction - it's based on an interpretation.
The two inspirational links underneath this I already gave you. This time I also bring two quotes that should interest you and which ought to be the next target for your investigations: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/middleeast/31gaza.html?_r=2 = "The night before the mass wedding party, he said, his wife shared with him her ultimate wish: to carry out a joint suicide attack against Israel." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102703.html = "... demographics play a role in the conflict between us and the Zionists ..." ................................................... As to specific links to Muslim weddings I take for granted that you, being such a conscientious researcher, already have lots and lots. Otherwise you can't have dug very deep into this subject. However, I can tell you that I've found some information in Wikipedia, Danish research reports like e.g. "Islam i flammer" (2006) by David Trads, many, many links to new and older media reports like e.g.: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f38/mass-wedding-saudi-style-13638/ http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/07/hamas-sponsors-mass-wedding-for-little.html http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/07/hamas-sponsors-mass-wedding-for-little.html http://english.chinatibetnews.com/TibetdDiscovery/2009-06/16/content_260271.htm http://www.caloocancity.gov.ph/content.aspx?sectionid=479 http://english.cctv.com/20090617/101458.shtml http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=44723 Some of these are based on interpretations, others simply report facts. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
joeblack099 said
Do
bad things happen r? You bet. Do people sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does
this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of some of these
countries for the last fifty years-and still are? the captivity by the
Muslims who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the
Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt. Col.. William Higgins in
Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture
rooms our troops found in Iraq , or the Muslims who cut off the heads of
schoolgirls in Indonesia , because the girls were Christian
Are
you actually talking about Palestine?? maybe you didn't realise
Palestine is what we are talking about. You talk about beheadings and
being buried alive and all sort of things, are you saying the
Palestinians do this?? I'm sorry but I found your comments quite
difficult to follow in places. You say you have been 'there' .... WHERE
have you been?? to Palestine because that is what we are talking about.
Maybe you should clarify your answer a little, i would like to
understand what you mean and what your contribution re Palestine is
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
ecec333 said
- was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
I
have asked you before but you seem to have forgotton to leave the links
to the ''infamous mass child weddings which have been documented over
and over again?? I really would appreciate these links, I like to be
sure of my facts, thanks
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
Actually
that is the way I feel, I tend not to quote from any particular
religion because, like you said, you can read the Qur'an and things we
find abhorrent but you could equally read from any other religious
source and find things that are awful. Thanks for the comments.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 15, '09
Thanks,
from the whole of your response these few words seem to go to the heart
of what I have been trying to say. If the human race is to survive we
do need to change the way we think, about so many things but mostly we
need to learn not to be so gullible and keep an enquiring mind and not
see things as black and white. Those with minds that hate can turn that
hate toward anything or anyone.
|
Thinking
about this during the night, found upon arriving the latest two
comments which pretty well express what I would want to say.
The message from our Creator given through His prophets is always one of be good, love one another. Religion and politics then step in with their power-hungry claws and also our own hearts seeking justification for what we do, how we are. We have work to do, the change must be made within each one of us. If we could stop lying, a major percentage of the job would be done. I must say, it bothers me that the words islam and muslim are used to indicate these things spoken of by previous commenters as these actions, ways of being, are not representative of what the Qur'an says. But there are examples of that, I suppose, with all religions. God doesn't have a religion. :-) |
hadenough1 wrote on Aug 15, '09
forgetmenot525 said
believe it's wrong to paint an entire religion, race, country or
people, as evil or bad, it's illogical to believe that if SOME people
from a particular group commit atrocities, they all do it. How does this
make any reasoned sense at all??
It doesn't make sense.
but some countries those idiocies went (and do go) beyond the line of all human decency and than we do need to all step up and say enough! . Even if we are not perfect. Just as we had to in Germany. Of course it wasn't all the people but as a Nation we had to stop what they were doing. even though we had our own ills--there is such a thing as "beyond the line of all others" someone has to point out things. As unpleasant as it was for many living in Germany who didn't like what was happening too. But they were not as in big on denial as many are today. They didn't call themselves peaceful people than. So came World War. To help millions who were being bullied. In that it makes sense--in answer to your question Not all hated the race just because they were angry at Gernany at the time neither. We need to understand that. Some did -some didn't. But it was a way to ID them as a Nation and calling out the wrong done there. How is that different now? ""It's just not possible to build a better world or to bring about peace any where under any circumstance once our hearts and minds are closed to others and full of hate."" Very true. But we should hate what is bad--and see it for what it is--- ever moving our hearts to good If I had a willful bad child--doesn't mean I hate the child to correct them. And one doesn't have to be perfect to do that. The world has always been brutal. It has always ruined the lives of soldiers (many who suffer all their lives--we do feel for them) and has always brought suffering to civilians. But in recent years, war and propaganda has changed its face. In what way? Today's wars are mainly wars between opposing groups of citizens of the same country. Or neighboring. And these wars often last longer, leave the population more traumatized, and destroy countries more thoroughly than wars fought between nations--the world wars.. These wars are cruel, bloody operations that result in thousands of deaths, sexual assaults, forced exile and, in the most extreme cases, genocide, Indeed, when atrocities are committed by neighbor against neighbor, the wounds may take centuries to heal. The pain and destruction caused by such hostilities are devastating. And true people are going to act out more. They are outraged--and this is the "age of rage" many writers say. We have to take that into consideration. Many children in these countries where all these terrible things going on it has become a way of life for them, they are growing up without ever having known peace. But they hear the boast that they are peaceful. They live in a world where schools have been destroyed and where dialogue takes place through the mouths of guns You say-we can all of the time to stop spreading hate, to stop spreading lies, to stop being deliberately provocative and to be open minded. Yes we should be--and we need to face everything. What fuels the fires of such cruel things? Ethnic and tribal hatred, religious differences, injustice (and that is a big part), and political turmoil are all significant factors. Another root cause is greed, pride and selfishness—greed for power and greed for money. Pride that is undeserved, selfishness to the point we don't want our own world rocked-leave our own backyard or looked bad even though it is. Political leaders, often motivated by these, stir up the hatred and wrongful pride that fuels the fighting. To uproot these destructive feelings, people need to change the way they think. Of course we are going to see more propaganda--but it's coming from both sides. And each has some horrible truths to it. And we have to sort it out. By looking at it all. Not blind either way. And making wise decisions There are different levels to wrong and evil. Best wishes on your post--hopefully ALL learned something |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 14, '09
I
began this in order to say, not every thing is what it seems, sometimes
we are presented with ''deliberately provocative propaganda'',
sometimes governments, people, leaders, members of one particular
faction, lots of different groups, all want to misinform us, they want
to incite and increase hatred. I believe it's wrong to paint an entire
religion, race, country or people, as evil or bad, it's illogical to
believe that if SOME people from a particular group commit atrocities,
they all do it. How does this make any reasoned sense at all?? You need
to be blind deaf dumb and stupid to truly believe all fault and all evil
lies in one corner..............it plainly doesn't. If we close our
minds to the wrong doing of those we support AND take every opportunity
to exaggerate the wrong doing of those we consider 'the enemy' all we
are doing is fanning the flames of hate, we increase and extend the
suffering of not only those we consider 'the enemy' but also those we
think of as our friends. It's just not possible to build a better world
or to bring about peace any where under any circumstance once our hearts
and minds are closed to others and full of hate.
Some of you have left the most awful videos here, what do you expect to prove?? We all know in areas of conflict and in wars terrible things happen and people are so immersed in hate and hurt they do and say truly awful things. If you believe atrocities are only committed by one side in any conflict you are deluded, history shows this has rarely been the case in any conflict. I took me a few minutes to find dozens of video clips on youtube showing war crimes and atrocities committed by the Israeli army, I'm not going to show them because as I said before, they prove nothing. In times of conflict atrocities happen, which is why we should be doing all we can all of the time to stop spreading hate, to stop spreading lies, to stop being deliberately provocative and to be open minded, If you care to broaden your mind just a little, this is the link to a lengthy report on Israeli War Crimes, the report is filmed by the BBC and reported by The Guardian newspaper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLZgNy46aTQ |
hadenough1 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 14, '09
There
is lots of propaganda--which can be used for good and bad--like Drunk
Driving, Drugs --Ads that show something that could be--even like your
picture of the kids you say is being used wrong or the lady being
buried and stoning (these things happen)--it is created to make us
think. That guy is right there.
But it is often misused too The same was not true for six million Jews living in Germany and nearby countries some 60 years ago. Vicious propaganda was instrumental in extinguishing the lives of those Jews in Nazi gas chambers and concentration camps. Widespread, profound, unquestioned, and virulent anti-Semitism led many to regard the Jews as enemies whose extermination was not only necessary but just. In that case, propaganda proved to be a weapon of mass extermination. We don't want that again. Hopeful not again to that extreme. Nor do we want to be mislead-one country claims they are peaceful people but their history shows much violence and to a very-very-very-very extreme nature. And we have to look at that rather we it they like it or not. That is history. Braggers have always been! If we had stoned or buried, cut off heads, married young children in our country--in this age--we call it a horrible crime-few would say any different--and they All need to too. Not that we are perfect in any way, If Jews were still stoning--I wouldn't call them a peaceful people? Are they still doing that? If Christians were still crucifying-I wouldn't call them a peaceful religion? If Catholics were still burning people at the stake-I wouldn't call them peaceful. But are they? Nor do I call Muslims for their practises peaceful till they do away with that, Change. That is within their control. To belong and be a part of that or not. I wouldn't belong to a group where I know that is a part of it. I wouldn't ignore it and say--well that is not me doing it. That is gang mentality. War isn't in their control that I understand But Sainthood is far/far from this country--so is peace. I look at my own country in the same way--I wouldn't say we are peaceful people--I wouldn't dare be so bragging Propagandist messages can be used to accomplish positive social ends, as in campaigns to reduce drunk driving or even to alert us to problems in the world. Some are not wrong there-no matter how it is used. But propaganda may also be used to promote hatred for ethnic or religious minorities and that too is used. How right you are. Wow, you certainly got yourself some highly educated answers about things that are happening, it's cultural, it's religious, it's rare, not true, yes it happens, mind our own business, this one does this or that too so..., Some brought out some good points we shouldn't be so quick to push them aside. But, hardly a one, said and what I find is really sad- really sad-what you showed in your blog as propaganda and it is ---what does happen in many places (not just one) in our world and especially there at times (also Africa Iran, Pakistan, and Rwanda, Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan. Balkans too....)-perhaps in a different way than than some in picture thought--it is sad- very-it does happen--is that some things are wrong and not just propaganda pictures.. that is only a part. Oprah has had many shows on that too. Your post is a prime example of how morality can be erased in the classroom-- and everywhere. The best thing to do is publicise it to show to the world what is going on not only on propaganda pictures but in nations (and that is the word). That is why you got so many commenting on that. Makes sense. But we do need to look with discernment--as we are going to hear a lot from many sources-good and bad. We do need to be watchful. Take all the information in and sort through it well. Look at it's HISTORY Your post is a hard one to answer just on the subject of propaganda alone because it does include so much else. People should understand that. The Who, What and Whys of propaganda too -and it's a very good post- but it looks bad either way for us too in a way. Yes, propaganda happens (the Good and the Bad) Yes, we should be very aware of it and how it is used. How to take the truth for all of it. Not just parts. But things are happening and we can't be blind to that. (the whos and whys and whats)_ Is it the numbers that count? Are we saying just because few are being denied basic human rights or even dying at the hands of bullies - so it doesn't matter they still can call themselves a peaceful country ? ( that doesn't sound right) How about some are good so we just excuse the rest and not talk about it at all? Hmm) Because it culture or religious or I didn't do it- so it doesn't count?( That doesn't make us look good neither just to turn our heads to horrors.) That what happens to children anywhere doesn't count? (not only are some married young but many are in actual wars trained to kill as young as 6 -I hear. They say More than 400,000 child soldiers—both boys and girls—are still fighting and dying in the endless civil conflicts that plague our planet and mostly from these countries of people calling themselves peaceful and good. Look that up. See for yourself. (Childhood lost) Look under child soldiers. When was last time we Drafted or let them serve -someone under 10? When stuff is bad say so .... so you said. Does that mean only here? Just on this part? When? Is it because it is none of our business--Than when is such horror against people are business--only when it affects us????? Only when things are perfect here first? When do we speak out? Only when we get ALL the facts straight and not before even though we know things do go on? Sorry that---Doesn't sound right Eventually, political pressures will enact change (at least I hope). I thank God in a way so much is out there even some propaganda-- to make us more aware. To hopefully shake us up to look further from our dream little world. But we do have to look very close as you pointed out. Very close. And look at history and of things going on now--The whos, whys-and what and where What happens anywhere that is wrong--should affect us all--rather my backyard or the world. How do we think things got this way and so widespread to begin with? Acceptance and Apathy >Certainly, I think we should exert some pressure on these countries who practices hurt innocence people too. Even if are hands are not perfectly clean--I don't mind when people speak out. < Someone has too. Yes, not all are the blame for the crimes of the world--and no one race , religion, or nations is all the blame or Blameless to the crimes of the world (few are really innocence despite the propaganda on all sides or the boast of so many)--but we should all accept as your main heading say--"IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM " |
daralharb said
One
last thing i have to say.Find yourselves some ex-muslims and see
exactly what the truth is about islam.They are very brave people who
live with the threat of assasination on a daily basis.Doesn't that say
something to you?
It speaks volumes to me ....
|
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09
daralharb said
One
last thing i have to say.Find yourselves some ex-muslims and see
exactly what the truth is about islam.They are very brave people who
live with the threat of assasination on a daily basis.Doesn't that say
something to you?
I
have a friend (woman) who escaped the terrible oppression in Iran .
Incredible stories of what they do to women there . . . . . . ..that's
why I find it vitally important to educate this blog author and maybe a
respondent or two.
Your entries were very effective descriptions . |
blondino01ontal9 said
and we have only your word to support these figures do we ???WASHINGTON - Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria. The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified." Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent. Do these findings mean that Americans are closet terrorist sympathizers Hardly. Yet, far too often, Americans and other Westerners seem willing to draw that conclusion about Muslims. Public opinion surveys in the United States and Europe show that nearly half of Westerners associate Islam with violence and Muslims with terrorists. Given the many radicals who commit violence in the name of Islam around the world, that's an understandable polling result. But these stereotypes, affirmed by simplistic media coverage and many radicals themselves, are not supported by the facts – and they are detrimental to the war on terror. When the West wrongly attributes radical views to all of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, it perpetuates a myth that has the very real effect of marginalizing critical allies in the war on terror. Indeed, the far-too-frequent stereotyping of Muslims serves only to reinforce the radical appeal of the small minority of Muslims who peddle hatred of the West and others as authentic religious practice http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html
You
cannot avoid civilian casualties when fighting islam because they hide
amongst women and children.To blame a nation that spends billions on
weaponry in avoiding such things is erronous.
You people talk a good game.The problem is you are not seeing where the problem truly lies with islam and the whole wars with it.You fail to see how islam educates it's children.I am always appaled at how easily the children are forgotten when the blame game arises. These kids are taught they are better than anyone else.they are taught that Jews are from apes and pigs and to be hated.They are taught to love death more than life for goodness sakes.I do not say nor think all muslims are bad people and that is said all over my blog.I am a man and i can admit things i stand tall in saying and admitting I HATE ISLAM.What is islam,is it a race,a person?Islam is an ideology politcal and religous.It is one that DOES dictate every aspect of ones life. Imagine being born into an ideology that from birth every aspect of your life is told to you.Good grief boys and girls are segregated and they don't even know how to act around eachother except for when they get horny,then sadly that is when people die,mainly women,who shoulder the blame for herself and the male. People harp and rant about the Wests PAST as far as slavery,yet islamic slavery goes on and on and has for 1400 yrs yet people seem to think thats okay. Some see it as impossible or not likely that there were 450 little girls wedded into child molestation and i cringe with disbelief any could still be so unknowing of the truth. |
Here is a little video i made a long time ago.notice the image with the guy with a gun to his head.This man was an ex-muslim,found me here at Multiply and befriended me.This man was so full of shame for being in islam and tormented himself for the things he did while he was a muslim that he could not take it anymore.His blog was devoted to putting muhammad on trial and that mixed with him leaving islam brought him nothing but death threats,which you can rest assured would be accompanied by plenty of torture first.This mans last message to me was that he was done living because he couldn't take it anymore.There is no-one in this blog or any other blog that can convince me of anything good that comes from islam.The fact that grown men do molest children is just that A FACT.nothing you can say or do can change that aside from allowing islam to leave this world.Islam condones rape and murder of women ,even if a man merely suspects she has done something to dishonor him.Again this is a fact. Wanna know where to find the truth? Look at islamic law called SHARIA LAW.here you find the very laws that protect plainly child molestation,rape and murder of women,and murder of anyone non -muslim. Hey as far as the 450 grown men marrying the children,sure it can be something twisted out of proportion.But why no images of the true brides?Has anyone that did the "research" on that video find any images of them? What use is a law,sharia law, that states as far as child brides.....you may not penetrate them,you may fondle them,they may fondle you.Plus there is something called thigh sex the man can have with her.But hey the law does protect the child IF the man so chooses to have inter-coarse with her anyway and that law states that if he hurts her then he is monetarily responsible for her for the rest of her life. Well thank God for that,lets just hope he doesn't merely suspect her of dishonoring him when she becomes a burden and he is allowed to put her down like an animal. Let me tell you that there are more scholars on the subject of islam than just muslims alone.Just because a muslim says you cannot fully understand islam unless you are a muslim doesn't mean squat.In fact they say that because we are considered SUB-HUMAN until we do accept islam which leaves them thinking they are better than infidels,holier,smarter...... the truth is their farce of a God,allah and their piece of crap lunatic of a "perfect prophet" gave them nothing by which to live but the sword,the very sword they not only cut themselves down with,they kill plenty of each other off,but others must strike them down with the sword in defense. I only hope some have invested as many years as i have to this subject and farce of a political ideal hiding behind the shield of religion,if you have then you can't possibly miss the truth. Another fun fact about islam is it is only a fast growing religion because each male is allowed 4 wives,not to mention countless sex slaves,which would give this loser how many children?Add the amount of wives and children with absolutely NO CHOICE but to be muslims and well hey look at that it is a fast growing religion. Islam is a ball and chain on the world,hands out for food and just about everything else because their wonderful religion offers them nothing of a future,nothing but yet again more women and sex.Islam has nothing but what it has taken from others.Lets all condemn little old Israel for invading Palestine.I have an idea....islam give back all the land it stole and Israel give back Israel.Another fun fact,islam would have nothing and Israel would still be Israel. If nobody likes what i have said here then get in line for the Dar's a hater hate club.Go ahead and hit my site with complaints of it being a hate site.I have weathered it all ,why? Because there is nothing hateful said in there except what is said by islam. |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09
earnesttphdthc said
Small
number considering there are 1.4 Billion muslims and in some countries
over 50% support or sympathize with suicide bombings .. .. . Worldwide
compilation of polls of just muslims puts the number at over 40%. . .
.40% = over 500,000,000.15% said they actively participate with violent murders .. . .15% = way over 100,000,000 So right there we've got well over 700,000,000 dangerous muslims .
and we have only your word to support these figures do we ???
WASHINGTON - Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria. The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified." Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent. Do these findings mean that Americans are closet terrorist sympathizers Hardly. Yet, far too often, Americans and other Westerners seem willing to draw that conclusion about Muslims. Public opinion surveys in the United States and Europe show that nearly half of Westerners associate Islam with violence and Muslims with terrorists. Given the many radicals who commit violence in the name of Islam around the world, that's an understandable polling result. But these stereotypes, affirmed by simplistic media coverage and many radicals themselves, are not supported by the facts – and they are detrimental to the war on terror. When the West wrongly attributes radical views to all of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, it perpetuates a myth that has the very real effect of marginalizing critical allies in the war on terror. Indeed, the far-too-frequent stereotyping of Muslims serves only to reinforce the radical appeal of the small minority of Muslims who peddle hatred of the West and others as authentic religious practice http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html |
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09
Small
number considering there are 1.4 Billion muslims and in some countries
over 50% support or sympathize with suicide bombings .. .. . Worldwide
compilation of polls of just muslims puts the number at over 40%. . .
.40% = over 500,000,000.
15% said they actively participate with violent murders .. . .15% = way over 100,000,000 So right there we've got well over 700,000,000 dangerous muslims . |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
maybe we should lighten up a little, maybe what we need is a little humour ....................:-))
http://forgetmenot525.multiply.com/journal/item/377/When_all_else_fails..................try_a_little_humour_ |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
To: The Whole World
We, the Muslims, are deeply saddened by the horrific attacks in Mumbai, India and we offer our deep condolence to the affected families. We, true followers of Islam, condemn all acts of innocent killing. We are tired of misguided individuals using name of our religion for their own political or who-knows-what ambitions. These criminals should be brought to Justice. *Any act of harming or killing innocent People is totally against what Islam stands for, no matter who is responsible. ...if someone kills another person, it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind... (Qur'an, 5:32) *Islam teaches us to be good to Neighbors - .. Be good to your parents and relatives and to orphans and the very poor, and to neighbors who are related to you and neighbors who are not related to you, and to companions and travelers and your slaves. Allah does not love anyone vain or boastful. (Qur'an, 4:36) *Islam teaches us to be “Just” and we believe in being “Just” O You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of Allah, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred of a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to faith. and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 5:8) *Islam teaches us not to cause trouble on the Planet and we believe that those who are causing trouble are misguided When they are told, "Do not cause mischief on the earth," they say, "We are reformers." Unquestionably, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realize (it) not. . (Qur'an, 2:11-12) We urge everyone, including the media and the political leadership, not to help these terrorists in their distorted mission by associating their heinous acts to Islam. http://www.petitiononline.com/muslim9/petition.html |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
This page focuses on condemnations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other terrorist incidents since then as well as of terrorism in general. It is not a complete listing of all condemnations written or spoken by Muslims but is intended to provide a representative sample. It has often been claimed in the media that Muslims are "silent" and do not condemn terrorism. This page is intended to refute that claim. Muslims have not been silent. Not even close. See also How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 for more information about the Muslim response to 9/11. And another listing is at Statements Against Terror. Also Muslim Voices Against Terrorism. Related commentary at Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again , by Juan Cole and The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror by Ali Eteraz. http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php many many links to Muslims agains Terrorism |
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09
forgetmenot525 said
SORRY..................DID I MISS SOMETHING?? , DOES ANY OF THIS CHANGE THE TRUTH (OR LACK OF) IN THE ORIGINAL STORY??
Yep
because your original entry asked - "Are you all so ready to believe
any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted
next to it??"
And with everything from beheadings to state-run TV broadcasting hatred towards all who are not Muslim, there'd be no problem believing something that was far less provocative . Do you even know what percentage of muslims sympathize with or agree with suicide bombings ? |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
Tim Marshall of Sky News attended the wedding in Gaza . shame he did not take a better video :)
It showed how much some people want to believe nonsense like this, as it re-inforces their prejudices, always a comfortably fun thing to do http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417 Tim Marshall is a leading authority on foreign affairs, and has reported from 30 countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Middle East and North America.Tim has covered the conflicts in Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon. In 2007, he led reporting for Sky's Inside Iraq week, marking the fourth anniversary of the Gulf War. In August 2005, he charted the Israeli pull out from Gaza and reported from the front line during the conflict in Afghanistan. Tim reported extensively on the volatile situation in Pakistan both before and after Benazhir Bhutto's assassination. His interview with Bhutto ahead of her return to Pakistan from exile was a world exclusive.Tim now has one of the fastest growing blogs and podcasts on the web - Foreign Matters at www.sky.com/news Tim has previously been Diplomatic Correspondent, Middle East Correspondent and Europe Correspondent for the channel before being made Foreign Affairs Editor.In 2004 Tim was a finalist in the RTS News Event category for his Iraq War coverage |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
Ok my friend is watching the Micky Mouse Video right now and he told all his work mates about the ridiculous Hamas - Children video and how people were fooled ... |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
I
told her that., I also told her its an anti stonning campaign picture
from Iran thats a few years old...................but she says she
thinks its ok to use it as an example ??
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
oh do I know how you feel.................i'm struggling :-))
And if by American politics you mean Party politics, I understand what you mean there too. I don't see the point in arguing party politics, but If it's out there and it's aim is to misinform, mislead, incite hatred, encourage intolerance or otherwise make the world a bigger mess than it already is, I will probably say so. I don't cope with lies very well. thanks for your participation. |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
been where ?
Iran ? cos the picture is not Palestine . All Arabs are not Muslim. All Muslims are not Arab , in fact only 18% if Muslims are Arabs the other 88% are made up of many ethnicities including Chinese. Turks .S E Asians . Europeans . Pakistanis . iranians . Most populous Muslim country is Indonesia . There is no " Nation " |
Perhaps
my 'reluctance' should be clarified on my own site. That reluctance is
about participating in debates on American politics with the uninformed
and knee jerk reactionary factions. I don't suffer ignorance very
well, I get quite frustrated and angry and once I get started, I take no
prisoners. I'm here for social networking, not anti-social networking.
I avoid doing blogs on the three subjects of American politics,
religion and sports teams, there is no quicker way to stir up people
than to voice an opinion opposed to their beliefs and preferences on one
of those issues.
I don't see your post here as necessarily political. I see it more as a statement that "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". I firmly believe that people should research issues before they support or condemn them and should fully understand what they are talking about, before running off at the mouth. Simply said, "engage brain, before putting mouth in gear." |
joeblack099 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
No it was sent to me
and that man that man is real--I will see of I can get you a link by mail-- so you may talk to someone from there. The picture is a visual as you said Do bad things happen r? You bet. Do people sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of some of these countries for the last fifty years-and still are? the captivity by the Muslims who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt. Col.. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq , or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia , because the girls were Christian.. the women who are stoned, buried and beheaded for anything we are the world's watches now (that was a visual--wrong as it may be) What is wrong is wrong and we need to talk out Yes, propaganda can be displayed openly by the use of such emblems of hate as the swastika or subtly by the telling of a tasteless joke or the net. Its persuasive techniques are regularly applied by dictators, politicians, clergymen, advertisers, marketers, journalists, radio and TV personalities, publicists, and others who are interested in influencing thought and behavior. Of course, propagandistic messages can be used to accomplish positive social ends, to help people understand what is going on as in campaigns to reduce drunk driving and in this case too/. But propaganda may also be used to promote hatred for ethnic or religious minorities or to entice people to buy cigarettes. "Every day we are bombarded with one persuasive communication after another," point out. Your right about that."These appeals persuade not through the give-and-take of argument and debate. For better or worse, ours is an age of propaganda. There is truth and lies in propaganda. and your right we need to think it out. Seeing your picture I thought if what goes there with women-and that is a fact Yes it would be better if we just had the truth all the way around. But even when we did--some don't face it. They don't face it. Many in fact. Visuals help. The case of Germany and the Jews--we were told the truth right in the beginning but few believed until thousands were dead--thousands. We didn't jump in because we didn't see it--didn't visualize it. Even though it was told over and over. Strange world we live in I don't think people are condemning all by saying this country is wrong in some of its practices. They are saying they need changed. Just as we do. And child/virgin scarifies from the past, cult killings, cultural killings marring of children . marrying, is just wrong no matter where it is done. And it should be everyone's business. No matter what propaganda is put out--we need to look closely at it--to see the truth in it. For better or worse, ours is an age of propaganda |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation" People of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it- She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles. You obviously lied, don't you understand that if you wish to fight opression and injustice you can't do it with lies, you need to get your facts righ, check every thing out, make sure your story is correct and stick to the facts. Once you try to embelish your beleif with untruths you lose credibility and so does your cause. |
joeblack099 wrote on Aug 13, '09
that picture is just an example --I have been there--it does happen still in this day
It's Just wrong and thank you |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
SORRY..................DID I MISS SOMETHING?? , DOES ANY OF THIS CHANGE THE TRUTH (OR LACK OF) IN THE ORIGINAL STORY??
|
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09
forgetmenot525 said
Are you all so ready to believe any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted next to it??
Your
original premise was how could people be so willing to believe evils of
Islam. Above there are 3 videos which are far more outrageous than
child brides, and here's a fourth . So in answer to your question . .
..THESE VIDEOS ARE WHY . . . .and for good reason .. . . . But I really
wonder if you'll actually view them.
|
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09
|
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417
Islamophobia. Ignorance Or Propaganda The party is for 450 grooms, the brides are elsewhere, some among the 5,000 or so guests. It's the way things are done here, Personally I'm for the mixing of the sexes, but I'm not about to argue, I'm outnumbered. Up on the stage there's music and dancing. Everyone's having a good time, even me, although the Hamas robocops are making me a little nervous. Sure Hamas have cold blooded killers among them, sure they support the murder of children in Israel,sure they are cracking down on women's rights, but many of their supporters are just ordinary people. And they need a break. The men and women are sitting, Most ignore the speeches, some even ignore the prayers. Then the fireworks explode, the cheering begins, and in march the Hamas scouts, bashing drums, looking every inch the future Hamas fighters many will be. Then the grooms, aged about 18 to about 28. They are holding hands with their young nieces and cousins, little girls aged from about 3 to 8, made up to the nines, wearing white wedding dresses. Up they all go to the stage, the cheering and music grows ever louder. The girls were having the time of their lives, but, getting a little bored after a while, came down off the stage to dance with each other and play games. Our report on this put it into context saying that it took place just a mile from the Israeli border and was a message from Hamas about its strength confidence and future fighters. Oh and that the brides were elsewhere. Pretty straightforward. It never struck me for a moment that the little girls might later be described in the bloggersphere as the brides! How naive I am. Dozens, and I mean dozens, of websites took the video of the event and wrote lurid stories about Hamas mass paedophilia with headlines about '450 child brides', and endless copy about how disgusting this was, how it showed how depraved Islam is, et al, ad infinitum. Site after site jumped on the story, linking from one totally wrong load of rubbish to the next . I'll give credit to Tundra Tabloids who at least took down the video, but most sites just ploughed on regardless. I spent a few hours visiting websites and leaving comments where I could. To little avail. Instead I received a steady stream of vitriol. The best response was on a site run by a Debbie Schlussel . The guy who posted it said he wasn't interested in the detail. The detail being the fact that the girls weren't the brides. It showed how much some people want to believe nonsense like this, as it re-inforces their prejudices, always a comfortably fun thing to do. But Hamas, and the jihadists do enough terrible things without having to make things up about them. Most of the stuff I read was outright, unthinking, gleeful, Islamophobia from people who clearly knew nothing about Arab popular culture. It's as is they really beleive that because there are examples of child brides, it means all weddings are with child brides. Some sites went so far as to complain that the mainstream media were complicit in paedophilia because they had reported the mass wedding but failed to mention that little girls were about to be raped that night. And so it went on, and on. Perhaps I was making up the fact that the brides were elsewhere. It's possible. But who would you believe, the reporter who went to the event, or a desperately poor version of citizen journalist, sitting at home, making things up, not checking anything, and either unknowingly or deliberately, writing hysterical anti Islamic nonsense. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
bennett1 said
However, using this practice to condemn Islam is similar to using the sexual abuse of children by priests to condemn Catholiscm.
thanks
Bennett.............sadly many people DO use these incidents of child
abuse as evidence to claim the whole of the catholic church is corrupt,
Same sort of thing, diferent religion.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
earnesttphdthc said
do you really need or want to see real videos of real incidents and real beliefs
Patrick..............I
assume this means that you now accept this particular story is
NOTreal!! I assume you now accept I am right about this?? That's ok, no
apology needed, we all make mistakes
|
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09
forgetmenot525 said
Hi
Vickie, nice to have you here, and yes this is what has been happening,
some people see the whole of Islam as 'the enemy' and will stop at
nothing to discredit, mock, ridicule and spreat hate against them
regardless of the truth of any given situation. People stop questioning
is the tag 'islam' is attached, see the tag and know its evil seems to
be their motto. yes its very very true ... endless vidoes with completely bogus translations |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
but infanticide still exists in China , India , Taiwan
a 1.7 million baby girls left to die every year in China .... no one bothered about that ? http://blondino01ontal9.multiply.com/journal/item/135 |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 13, '09
I have my Arabic friend in MSN and he watching the video and he laughed that people would actually beleive these children are the brides . The girls are like he said " mascots before a football match. Flower girls . he said at Palestinian Weddings often the women and men are in different halls - but children can go between the men and women freely to bring joy and happiness." My friend is Egyptian and as he is at work cannot do a word for word translation so I will ask other Arabic speakers on Multiply to come in and confirm this ...... I beleive him cause he tells me when something is true even when I dont like it ... :) |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
vickiecollins said
But
let one person from the "enemy" culture do something, and the whole
society is ridiculed and put down as being totally EVIL. (sigh)
Hi
Vickie, nice to have you here, and yes this is what has been happening,
some people see the whole of Islam as 'the enemy' and will stop at
nothing to discredit, mock, ridicule and spreat hate against them
regardless of the truth of any given situation. People stop questioning
is the tag 'islam' is attached, see the tag and know its evil seems to
be their motto.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
veryfrank said
.
It is also most interesting that this type of deliberately provocative
propaganda is being produced in the very countries that are supposed to
be brokering peace in that region.
Thank
you Frank, I appreciate you saying this , especially when I know how
reluctant you are to participate in political debate.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09
earnesttphdthc said
P.S.
- To the author of this blog .. . . .do you really need or want to see
real videos of real incidents and real beliefs showing what barbarians
they really are ?
you
still don't get it...............you can post as many genuine videos,
pictures, articles or any thing else you can find...............If they
are genuine and not madE up I'll not argue.
BUT NO AMOUNT OF GENUINE VIDEOS ETC WILL STOP THIS STORY BEING A MALICIOUS LIE AND THAT IS WHAT I OBJECT TO. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
This
is a well known photograph used in campaigns to stop the lawful
stonning of people under the law in Iran. It was first seen in the media
in about 2007. This is so well documented I can't be bothered to leave
the links. The picture is so well known I remember signing a 'stop the
stonning' petition headed by this same photograph. Don't you people
understand that by spreading half truths and lies you damage legitimate
protests for the end of real (as opposed to imagined) atrocities. If you
google ''stopstonning'' you will find dozens of reports using this
photograph and all tell the same story.
you tell lies 1. this is a stoning not someone being buried alive 2. this comes from Iran not from Palestine 3. no one 'sent' you this it is all over the internet this statement is untrue.''Here a friend sent me this who lives there-- And before you rant about me approving these things.............read what I have written, I signed the petition headed by this photograph to stop the stoning. ALL I AM ASKING IS THAT PEOPLE CHECK THEIR FACTS AND DON'T POST MIS-INFORMATION. |
joeblack099 wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
People of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it- She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles. --correction this is just a visual of what it is like-as pointed out  Nation-Description of nation - American Heritage® Dictionary NOUN: 1a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out. nationhood,c referring to people or a person in a country The definition of a nation can also include a group of people with a common belief Speaking to a group or talking about in any given country---The president spoke to the nation about the new tax (who did he really talk to-certainly not everyone) The term Nation can be used in the manner above. And many other ways. nation remains somewhat vague term, in that there is generally no strict definition -merriam-webster I'd worry more about what they do that is wrong and calling it out and telling all there--doesn't matter if it's Cultural, Religious, Political--it's just wrong. And someone has to address this Nation Or Country if you like and say so. As far as I know the Catholics haven't buried alive anyone in the last 200 years. And I call out their wrong (like molestation) too as a group even though I am one too. And I do watch my backyard as much as my brothers and sisters all over--shouldn't we all? |
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 13, '09, edited on Aug 13, '09
joeblack099 said
Islam
abolished the horrible practice of female infanticide only by others
speaking out against their horrible practices . As a Nation. It's
ridiculous to think you could do it by just calling out individuals and
not the Nation. Calling them what they were. What the people were not
only for doing it but allowing it by turning their heads. Apathy doesn't
do a thing. Never did.Maybe someday we will call them out as a Nation for burying women alive.
A 'nation' ? Please .
The author of this blog is ignorant of the truth . . .period . Giving her excuses doesn't help . P.S. - To the author of this blog .. . . .do you really need or want to see real videos of real incidents and real beliefs showing what barbarians they really are ? |
joeblack099 wrote on Aug 12, '09, edited on Aug 12, '09
Islam
abolished the horrible practice of female infanticide only by others
speaking out against their horrible practices . As a Nation. It's
ridiculous to think you could do it by just calling out individuals and
not the Nation. Calling them what they were. What the people were not
only for doing it but allowing it by turning their heads. Apathy
doesn't do a thing. Never did.
Maybe someday we will call them out as a Nation for burying women alive. Even women who were raped. For marrying little children away That does go on -I have been there. Rather this one is real or not it still happens and they are not prosecuted or corrected. Maybe than they will stop. Doesn't mean I or anyone hate them all--it means tough love as a group and everyone involves has to owe up to their responsibility and their shame for being a party to it to protect the innocence. Like it or not. That's life. And you can say well this other one did this or that--still doesn't change the wrong of the first or excuse it |
 |
vickiecollins wrote on Aug 12, '09, edited on Aug 12, '09
After
reading many of the comments as well as the orginal post, I have to
point out that the video will be intrepreted differently depending on
the prospective of the person watching it. But the more important issue
is that it is a fact that different cultures do things differently In
fact different parts of a particular country often have different
cultural norms.
When will we stop deciding the worth of the person based on whether they live up to OUR cultural standards or not. Yes, there are cases where real abuse takes place, and should be curtailed. But so many are ready to condemn all Islamic persons because of a solitary group doing something untoward. Why dont we in the so called "Christian" countries reject people because of their violations of our codes. Of even more important, why do we very often not see violations of our particular codes as violations if they are common? But let one person from the "enemy" culture do something, and the whole society is ridiculed and put down as being totally EVIL. (sigh) |
We really are at the mercy of the translators, but that's nothing new, they're still debating the translation of the Bible.
The idea that people will see what they want to see is true. Each time the story is repeated, the story grows a bit, eventually embellished to the point of not being able to recognize the original issue. That becomes quite convoluted when people show their ignorance and apathy and become dependent on fanatics and political agendas to tell them what the are seeing. They believe what they are told and make no effort to see for themselves, just a jerk knee reaction to criticize the issues and spread the word - the word, right, wrong or indifferent, the word is what they were told, not what they saw, because they didn't look for themselves; but it surely will be spread quickly. Quickly, because propaganda of hatred is the agenda. There are power, riches and the sense of superiority in keeping people divided, ignorant and in the dark. I know it is the political and religious agenda of the desperate in this country and expect that it is the same other places. Whenever I see stories such as this, just full of misinformation and judgement, I step back and wonder just who appointed the western world as the guardians of morality and censors of the traditions of others. It does come down to who really has the right to be judgemental? If people took care of their own issues, in a knowledgeable and intelligent way, they wouldn't have time to poke their noses into the business of others. It is also most interesting that this type of deliberately provocative propaganda is being produced in the very countries that are supposed to be brokering peace in that region. |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09
I gave the video link to an Arabic speaking freind for translation of
what it is telling us .... he is busy at work but I will post what he
tells me
there are many videos on the net that when translated do not say what they are accused ir ... agendas ..... off to bed nightie nighters |
blondino01ontal9 said
http://whatreallyhappened.com/forum/35402BEWARE OF THE HAMMAS MASS WEDDING VIDEO CLIP! I feel that its important for every one to understand the video clip that is being paraded around the net. The ziotards are spinning it as Hamas is forcing little baby girls in a mass public wedding. WHICH IS NOT TRUE! I'm sending this out in my next news letter to all my contacts and I wanted to make sure you all here in WRH saw it too.... ***************** OKAY LISTEN UP WARRIORS! there is this video clip on the net that is being spinned by the zionazis as Hamas is forcing young babies to marry men in a huge wedding ceremony that Hamas organized for 450 couples. If you watch the video and you cannot understand Arabic or you do not know about Arab Islamic weddings you would mis understand what you see there. THE LITTLE GIRLS IN THIS VIDEO CLIP ARE NOT THE BRIDES! I REPEAT... THEY ARE NOT THE BRIDES! Here is my own Palestinian sister in law's explanation of what is going on in this clip.. "LOL, I get your concern!!!!!!..........This thing is about a mass wedding cerimony organized by Hamas as you and Angie know, the thing you are concerned about is so funny, they replaced the real brides with the little ones so they can walk around with them for all to see. It is because of religiouse purposes, the real grown up brides are in their revealing gowns and fully made in their own all women party waiting for all the festivities to cool down in the streets so they can be united with their grooms later on. Also to tell israel and the world that we will never give up no matter what they do, burn our houses down, mutilate us, bomb the hell out of us or kill our kids,women and elders......WE WILL GET MARRIED AND HAVE MORE CHILDREN AND WE WILL KEEP AT IT." Also my other Palestinian Sister In Law says that little girls in Arab weddings like this who are the flower carriers and candle lighters are often dressed up to look just like the bride. Here is the video clip in question. I hope that every one will tell the ziotards when they try to spin this their way that they can forget it. They have been properly PUNKED!
Blondin.
Well done! Can I just point out that little girls who receive their first communion in Catholicism are often "dressed as brides?" and as you say, we use flower girls and bridesmaids in our wedding services. Traditionally, the purpose of the bridesmaid was to step in and marry the groom should there be an objection to the bride or some reason she could not be married. The same goes for the Best Man - if the groom was incapacitated, because of the solemnity of the promise of marriage to the Bride's family, the Best Man was to step in and marry her in the Groom's stead. We still practice these archaic and centuries old traditions in our modern wedding ceremonies today. No one suggests that having a little girl as a bridesmaid is an abhorration! Nessie x |
forgetmenot525 said
thank
you dear and yes you are so right..........not about wading in of
course, although you are very welcome, just right about what you say
:-))
It doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference though! LOL
At the end of the day, as I think one of your other bloggers has said already, people will see what they want to see, truth or not. (((hugs))) Nessie x |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09, edited on Aug 12, '09
In
December and January, Israel conducted an unprecedented offensive in
the Gaza Strip, killing more than 1,300 Palestinians. About 43 percent
of victims were women and children and the rest were men, most of them
youths.
However, the Hamas project sparked criticism by pro-women groups. Samira Abdel Aleem, the Director of Women Committees said that it "degrades the dignity of the Palestinian woman who always sacrificed alongside the man." "The woman has the right to choose her husband," Abdel Aleem said, demanding the authorities to amend the personal status law and outlawing the polygamy. Hamas said those who want to get advantage of the project should be fiscally capable of "providing for two wives or more and must be ready to look after the children of the new wife." They also must be committed to the moral and religious principles and provide "a private place for the new wife." Twenty of the marriages took place outside the bereaved families. The women, many of them mothers, were accompanied by daughters in white dresses, sons in black suits, relatives and friends. A second Hamas mass wedding, held in the At-Tuffah neighborhood of Gaza City on Saturday, included 13 couples, among them Hamas members recently released from Israeli jails. The wedding was put together by three neighborhood mosques and funded by the At-Tayseer charitable society. Another two mass weddings are said to have been held in the Palestinian enclave over the past two weeks. "We have weddings like this all the time," Um Ashraf Sayem, whose son is a Hamas official in Gaza, told The Media Line. "Sometimes it's for people who can't pay money for a wedding party. Different associations organize a group wedding for them and help them to buy furniture." A Hamas mass wedding held in July 2009 in a Nablus sports stadium is thought to have been the largest Palestinian mass wedding ever held, with 452 couples tying the knot. http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015764924?The%20Brides%20Wore%20Black:%20Hamas%20Widows%20Re-Marry%20on%20Gaza%20Beach&FORM=ZZNR |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
blondino01ontal9 said
suffice to say that the video was posted by the arch enemy of the Palestine people in order toincite hatred .....
guess it succeeded then, that is exactly what seems to be happening which was my point in the first place.
|
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09
I
had a video from President of Iran translated by Iranina freinds and he
did not say he wished Israel wiped of the face of the earth .. it was
another lie
( and I am no fan of that man I can asure you ) bottom line is look at the sourse , consider the source and then consider their agendas ... before perpetuating misinformation check the information or you are inciting hatred ..................... |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09
Now I am having that video translated by and Arabic speaking friend as it seems to be very very misleading indeed .
I will say no more till I have the actual words ... suffice to say that the video was posted by the arch enemy of the Palestine people in order to incite hatred ..... |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09
To FinalWitness
Ladybat2 Yes they are always at it. They never even sleep it seems. But something that is even more important about this video is this... My sister in law just came here from Gaza. We have been trying to get her and her two kids out of there for the last 3 years. It was very hard but we finally got them out. We all went through hell here when the Nazi "israelis" attacked Gaza this past winter. It was 27 days of pure hell for them and for us here. Any way she tells me that she does not know any one in Gaza who is starving. They don't have much of any thing else but they do have food. Its because they all share. And they are very good at growing things. And as fast as the Nazi "israelis" destroy their tunnels the Pals dig more of them. They bring food and some supplies through those tunnels. So they are not starving. But so many of them are homeless and live on the streets under blankets and other materials they try to make tents out of. When the weather is cold the ones who still have houses try and bring in as many as they can in their houses. When the weather is warm they go back out again. They grow vegtables in the dirt where their houses use to be. So God is taking care of them and making sure they have enough to eat at least. And look at this video. Even though it was used for negative propaganda against Hamas the real message is this.... We are alive. We have food to eat. And we can even manage to have weddings. With white dresses and flowers. And weddings mean marriage. And marriage means children. More children. We will survive. So "israel" homeland for the Jews and the Jews only... stick that up your ziotarded asses! LONG LIVE PALESTINE! TO RESIST IS TO EXIST! EVEN IF IT TAKES A THOUSAND YEARS! 08/01/2009 - 22:28 |
blondino01ontal9 wrote on Aug 12, '09
http://whatreallyhappened.com/forum/35402
BEWARE OF THE HAMMAS MASS WEDDING VIDEO CLIP! I feel that its important for every one to understand the video clip that is being paraded around the net. The ziotards are spinning it as Hamas is forcing little baby girls in a mass public wedding. WHICH IS NOT TRUE! I'm sending this out in my next news letter to all my contacts and I wanted to make sure you all here in WRH saw it too.... ***************** OKAY LISTEN UP WARRIORS! there is this video clip on the net that is being spinned by the zionazis as Hamas is forcing young babies to marry men in a huge wedding ceremony that Hamas organized for 450 couples. If you watch the video and you cannot understand Arabic or you do not know about Arab Islamic weddings you would mis understand what you see there. THE LITTLE GIRLS IN THIS VIDEO CLIP ARE NOT THE BRIDES! I REPEAT... THEY ARE NOT THE BRIDES! Here is my own Palestinian sister in law's explanation of what is going on in this clip.. "LOL, I get your concern!!!!!!..........This thing is about a mass wedding cerimony organized by Hamas as you and Angie know, the thing you are concerned about is so funny, they replaced the real brides with the little ones so they can walk around with them for all to see. It is because of religiouse purposes, the real grown up brides are in their revealing gowns and fully made in their own all women party waiting for all the festivities to cool down in the streets so they can be united with their grooms later on. Also to tell israel and the world that we will never give up no matter what they do, burn our houses down, mutilate us, bomb the hell out of us or kill our kids,women and elders......WE WILL GET MARRIED AND HAVE MORE CHILDREN AND WE WILL KEEP AT IT." Also my other Palestinian Sister In Law says that little girls in Arab weddings like this who are the flower carriers and candle lighters are often dressed up to look just like the bride. Here is the video clip in question. I hope that every one will tell the ziotards when they try to spin this their way that they can forget it. They have been properly PUNKED! |
Don't you find it interesting that I may say EXACTLY the same about you and your determination to stick to your conviction?
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
I know that's what you beleive, and your determination to hold onto that belief is more scary than any thing else.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
thank
you dear and yes you are so right..........not about wading in of
course, although you are very welcome, just right about what you say
:-))
|
Misinterpreted/Interpreted
differently - that's the point and as you know by now I say that they
have been interpreted differently. To disagree doesn't mean free to
discard other people's interpretations as (dishonest) misinterpretations
or something even worse. I still believe that the videos are of what
they have been said to be.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
ecec333 said
was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
that is interesting, I didn't know that, could you leave the link so that I can check it please.
|
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09, edited on Aug 12, '09
actually
yes I have read of this, but it doesn't actually alter the fact that
these videos have been deliberately misinterpreted all over the
internet. Are you attempting to say that if the story of the 9 year old
is true,the story of mass child brides must be true, or are you trying
to say that if the story of the 9 year old is true then every one can
be expected to see this video and claim (falsely) that it shows child
brides, because both arguments are illogical.
|
I
based my blog on what I read, not as much of the videos. I knew that
the general interpretation - you have one, others have another and
that's the way it is with interpretations - was of one of those infamous
mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
|
Yes, I know of the same cases althouogh I'm not a Catholic and we as Protestants don't meet the same problems in our Church.
For me to mention one case only leads to new ones. I think they are legio, at least that's my impression from readings like e.g. this: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09, edited on Aug 12, '09
ecec333 said
Unfortunately,
this very scenery has been interpreted differently. Some see it as you
do, others see it as very young brides marrying e.g. their cousins which
is customary. We know that this happens and we have no reason to
believe that's not what we see.
This
is not a matter of interpretation, it is not a case of me seeing one
thing and others seeing something else.It is a matter of checking facts,
This story was originally reported in its correct context and then
misinterpreted by many people in 'blogland' as being something very
different. You say you have no reason not to believe what you see,
except it is NOT what you see. It is what you automatically assumed you
see due to your pre-existing set of fixed ideas.
So ask yourself this;.............if YOU see this video and automatically, without prior knowledge of the facts, assume it is a mass wedding between adults and child brides; AND I see the video, also without prior knowledge of the facts, and despite reading a totally untrue description of the video, and I do NOT automatically arrive at the same incorrect conclusion..............what does this tell you?? |
I
am aware of a situation where a priest molested numbers of young
children. Few complained due to the authority of the Church. When
complaints were made, the priests were shipped to other parishes. This
happened all over the US. This has happened in Italy. The Church, the
Holy Roman Catholic Church, has stalled in the prosecution of these
priests and in paying restitution to the victims even when
legally required to. So what does that say about Catholics?? If you
want to solve a problem, look in your own background first.
|
Do
you know of this marriage of a 9 year old girl? She has tried to get a
divorce, but up til now in vain. When it was first known there were much
writings about the TRUE habits and it was stated that they were young
girl-married off-to-much-older-man-chosen-by-the-family. That is what
happens and what shocks us in Western European countries is the
sneakiness they use to go on with this, even in our societies. The Imams
marry very young girls in the Muslim tradition and she leads the life
as a wife, but she may not be registered as a married woman with the
Danish authorities. When we find these cases it's like poking into
debris, as such is the subjection of women in these families.
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002173.html |
I wasn't going to wade in. but I think I need to.
I think when people say "men marry young women all the time in muslim countries" what they are confusing is the act of betrothal or promise. Its like our Engagement. It was very common here in Britain and Europe til the first world war. It is NOT an actual marriage, merely an arrangement or promise of marriage at some future time if the father of the prospective bride can raise the necessary dowry and the groom is able to provide sufficiently for his bride to be. It is a contract that can be broken at any time. Just like our Engagements. However, the laws on marriage are very clear in Palestine: The minimum age of marriage is 15 for girls and 16 for boys. 18 is the actual legal age of responsibility but some provincial families do break the "state" law and follow Sharia law which states marriage is permissible as long as the girl is in puberty. Now before we get on our high horses, that is almost exactly what happens in this country, Europe and the USA. And aside from the matter of a little piece of paper you are not telling me that 12, 13, and 14 year olds aren't "shacking up" with their boyfriends and having babies in these countries either!!! Nessie x |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
the
videos show the grooms walking with their young neices, sisters,
cousins, etc, as is their tradition. the brides are kept seperate from
the grooms, as is their tradition. Therefore to show this video and
claim that it shows a mass marriage of very young female children and
adult men is, by definition, MISINFORMATION
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There is no misinformation here.
This concept of little girls as grown women is everywhere, even in the Muslim part of my own society. I give you this link, but doubt you will have much use of it as it's in Danish. Much of my information has been and I trust it as it's from authorities, like e.g. the police, or the depertment for foreign affairs. This one tells about the problem of Muslim immigrants marrying girls as young as 14, forced marriages, etc., etc., but it is in Danish: http://www.rights.no/publisher/publisher.asp?id=44&tekstid=2027 However, there are lots of this kind of information to find if one takes the time. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
LOL..............yeah heard it before but always worth a laugh, thanks.
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
Thanks
Bennett.................that is the point, it is too easy for people to
jump to the wrong conclusion. Once a story has been repeated the first
time, it growns and grows and becomes rooted in peoples minds as
something they are sure of, it becomes 'fact', except thats it's not
'fact', it's evil propoganda which incites and increases hatred.
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
I
don't personally know any muslims..............I just don't like
misinformation regardless of who it comes from or who it is aimed at.
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I
should add that there are different interpretations of both vidoes and
photos from these events and that most - like me - have seen them as
child marriages which we know are practiced quite openly in Muslim
societies. Pre-teens being married off to men old enough to be their
grandfathers and that kind of things.
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
actually.............no
it wasn't specifically your blog, it has been posted many times by many
people, but if you wish to lay claim to it then I guess that's ok by
me.
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earnesttphdthc said
They
chant 'death to america'- 'death to jews and Israel' - they cut off
people's heads and launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods hoping for
a random 'score' . - they have schooling and TV shows that teach them
to 'martyr' themselves - little children sing songs about spreading
Jewish blood all over their bodies .. . . . . . .. .and you get
surprised that some may mistakenly believe they'd marry little girls ??
I ride with you
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LOL,never
ceases to amaze me.This isn't far fetched at all.Did i miss the photo
Ops with the Real Brides?I don't know what i was supposed to get from
the top video because i don't speak the language.
I do believe you are right about propaganda only you are wrong about who is spreading it.Islam is nasty and i don't care how many muslims you know or are friends with.I know a few myself.Also i can only hope you have spent the amount of time i have spent....just about a decade digging into islam.Any arguements can be found on my page. |
I
am glad Ecec333 posted those links. You make an excellent point -
there was such a ceremony, but the brides were adults (as were the
grooms). Child marriage occurs,, but this is not an example of it. How
easy it is to paint something as sinister when it is not.
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acousticeagle wrote on Aug 12, '09
I
get your point, Loretta. People should check the facts of a matter,
rather than posting things up with shock/emotive value, thus to spread
rumours and tabloid-style 'un-news'. It's like rumour mongering.
Sometimes people only take things in in an peripheral way, next thing
it's 'common knowledge' about things that were misreported as 'true' in
the first place. And while there are much evils committed by people of
fundamentalist religions, actions caused by religiously fuelled,
hot-blooded lack of reason, what is true remains true. What is reported
as fact, but isn't, needs reproof.
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I take it that it's my blog entry you are referring to. That's OK. Some of my primal information is to be found here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/middleeast/31gaza.html?_r=2 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102703.html New York Times is very reliable, as to the other one it may be tainted by being Israelic. |
There
are many parts of the world in which children are betrothed in
marriage. There are isolated incidents that occur in this country.
There are even areas in which the marriage is consumated while the
"bride" is still a child. Obviously this is an abhorrent practice which
we need to work to stop. However, using this practice to condemn Islam
is similar to using the sexual abuse of children by priests to condemn
Catholiscm.
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starfishred wrote on Aug 12, '09
nessiek said
Urgh.What is it with (mainly but not exclusively) American idiots who post such stupidity? Its sheer racism. It has nothing to do with politics. Nessie x
so true nessiek
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This should do it (oh and by the way - this is a JOKE!)
To the citizens of the United States of America, in the light of your failure to check your facts in blogs, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect: 1. You should look up revocation in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up aluminium. Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix ize will be replaced by the suffix ise. You will learn that the suffix 'burgh' is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up vocabulary. Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up interspersed. There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often. 2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney,upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as Taggart will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is Devon. If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become shires e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire. 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as Men Behaving Badly or Red Dwarf will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness. 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through. 6. You should stop playing American football. There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American football is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays American football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US Rugby sevens side by 2012. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America.* Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called rounders, which is baseball without the fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs. *QUICK NOTE: Baseball is, in fact, a popular sport in Japan and its surrounding countries. However, as their teams are never invited to partake in the 'World Series', your point still stands.* 7. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public. 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called Indecisive Day. 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour. 10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian; though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are actually called crisps. Real chips are thickly cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers. 11. As a sign of penance, 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This quantity is to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself. 12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all; it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as lager. The substances formerly known as American beer will henceforth be referred to as 'Near-Frozen Knat's Urine,' with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as 'Weak, Near-Frozen Knat's Urine.' This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion. 13. From November 10th, the UK will harmonise petrol (or Gasoline, as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon- get used to it). 14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun. 15. Please tell us who killed JFK; it's been driving us crazy. 16. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776). Thank you for your co-operation and have a great day. |
forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
starfishred said
sick isn't it and to think so many of these hate spreaders are here on multiply to-
thanks Heid.............can always rrely on you :-))
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starfishred wrote on Aug 12, '09
great blog loretta sick isn't it and to think so many of these hate spreaders are here on multiply to-
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starfishred wrote on Aug 12, '09
earnesttphdthc said
They
chant 'death to america'- 'death to jews and Israel' - they cut off
people's heads and launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods hoping for
a random 'score' . - they have schooling and TV shows that teach them
to 'martyr' themselves - little children sing songs about spreading
Jewish blood all over their bodies .. . . . . . .. .and you get
surprised that some may mistakenly believe they'd marry little girls ??
you are one of the hate spreaders -sorry loretta had to say that
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forgetmenot525 wrote on Aug 12, '09
No
I don't get suprised, it's what i expect of ignorant
people.................I get mad...............when stuff is bad, say
so, when it's not.........DON'T.
AND....................CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFOR POSTING!!! this sort of mis information just incites and increases hatred. |
earnesttphdthc wrote on Aug 12, '09
forgetmenot525 said
Are you all so ready to believe any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted next to it??
They
chant 'death to america'- 'death to jews and Israel' - they cut off
people's heads and launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods hoping for
a random 'score' . - they have schooling and TV shows that teach them
to 'martyr' themselves - little children sing songs about spreading
Jewish blood all over their bodies .. . . . . . .. .and you get
surprised that some may mistakenly believe they'd marry little girls ??
|
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